Scroll of Instant Warp

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BengtJonssonJr
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:51 pm

Re: Scroll of Instant Warp

Post by BengtJonssonJr » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:07 am

mattyg wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:05 am
The 750 price is too high...and would be a huge negative impact on new players (especially sub lvl 36 as they have no other choice).

We should do something like...

(Max Job Level) x (Scroll No. Obtained this day) CP.

75 player first scroll = 75CP
second scroll = 150CP
third scroll = 225CP
.. etc

20 player first scroll = 20CP
second scroll = 40CP
third scroll = 60CP
.. etc

Could also cap the max CP at 10x per
75 = 750CP per
20 = 200CP per

Or if the price isn't steep enough..you could double these prices but keep the cap at 10x

This probably won't be implemented, but i wanted to provide this is a possible option. Not everything has to be strict to era to make the experience still feel like era. I believe that this price would be high enough so that warp cudgels would start to be in demand, but not absolutely required.
Agree with this tbh.

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Caelic
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Re: Scroll of Instant Warp

Post by Caelic » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:50 am

mattyg wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:05 am
The 750 price is too high...and would be a huge negative impact on new players (especially sub lvl 36 as they have no other choice).

We should do something like...

(Max Job Level) x (Scroll No. Obtained this day) CP.

75 player first scroll = 75CP
second scroll = 150CP
third scroll = 225CP
.. etc

20 player first scroll = 20CP
second scroll = 40CP
third scroll = 60CP
.. etc

Could also cap the max CP at 10x per
75 = 750CP per
20 = 200CP per

Or if the price isn't steep enough..you could double these prices but keep the cap at 10x

This probably won't be implemented, but i wanted to provide this is a possible option. Not everything has to be strict to era to make the experience still feel like era. I believe that this price would be high enough so that warp cudgels would start to be in demand, but not absolutely required.
Yeah, no. The first issue is that the menu options are client side and the value is going to have to be changed with another client update that comes with a dat mod to change that 7 to 750 client side. The FFXI client has no way to make dynamic menu options AFAIK. The second issue is that this is complicated as fuck and there is no way we are going to easily communicate this to players or allow players to keep track of how many they've bought so far so they know what to expect for their next warp scroll purchase.

This feels like a way to snake your way around an era change coming to the server. My advice is just get used to it because this is how things were. We've been babied on Eden up until this point. Back in era, I set my homepoint in Selbina as soon as I got off that boat and didn't change it until I dinged 20, where I headed off to Jeuno and set it there just like everyone else. If I needed something that wasn't bought off a Selbina NPC, I took the boat back to Mhaura and legged it back to Windy.

Relearn those WASD keys guys. They are going to be your new warp scroll.
A bird's trust is not in the branch.
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BengtJonssonJr
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:51 pm

Re: Scroll of Instant Warp

Post by BengtJonssonJr » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:09 pm

Caelic wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:50 am
mattyg wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:05 am
The 750 price is too high...and would be a huge negative impact on new players (especially sub lvl 36 as they have no other choice).

We should do something like...

(Max Job Level) x (Scroll No. Obtained this day) CP.

75 player first scroll = 75CP
second scroll = 150CP
third scroll = 225CP
.. etc

20 player first scroll = 20CP
second scroll = 40CP
third scroll = 60CP
.. etc

Could also cap the max CP at 10x per
75 = 750CP per
20 = 200CP per

Or if the price isn't steep enough..you could double these prices but keep the cap at 10x

This probably won't be implemented, but i wanted to provide this is a possible option. Not everything has to be strict to era to make the experience still feel like era. I believe that this price would be high enough so that warp cudgels would start to be in demand, but not absolutely required.
Yeah, no. The first issue is that the menu options are client side and the value is going to have to be changed with another client update that comes with a dat mod to change that 7 to 750 client side. The FFXI client has no way to make dynamic menu options AFAIK. The second issue is that this is complicated as fuck and there is no way we are going to easily communicate this to players or allow players to keep track of how many they've bought so far so they know what to expect for their next warp scroll purchase.

This feels like a way to snake your way around an era change coming to the server. My advice is just get used to it because this is how things were. We've been babied on Eden up until this point. Back in era, I set my homepoint in Selbina as soon as I got off that boat and didn't change it until I dinged 20, where I headed off to Jeuno and set it there just like everyone else. If I needed something that wasn't bought off a Selbina NPC, I took the boat back to Mhaura and legged it back to Windy.

Relearn those WASD keys guys. They are going to be your new warp scroll.
When it comes to if this would be problematic to do I have no idea so I will take your word for it. It doesn't mean other things couldn't work of course, but still.

As for the rest the server already has things not era that aren't going to change, like wardrobes. So the whole concept of just doing it because of it being era regardless of if it is good or not goes out the window. The idea is to be era, but it has already been shown that things can change for the better and this is absolutely a question that should be discussed because just because it is more era accurate doesn't mean it is better. This is doubly so because things aren't era accurate in terms of everything else and all parts of the game affects other parts. The population numbers back then were a lot bigger, it was easier to find D2, teleports etc. We actually had ToAU (we are aiming for ToAU era afaik anyway) which allowed for warp scrolls to be bought via IS as well. There were more crafters which lowered prices with competition and so on and so forth. The situation isn't the same here, it just isn't which is why different solutions should be considered. Sometimes era might still be the best option and sometimes it won't be, but it is always worth discussing regardless imo.

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Caelic
Posts: 63
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Re: Scroll of Instant Warp

Post by Caelic » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:01 pm

BengtJonssonJr wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:09 pm
As for the rest the server already has things not era that aren't going to change, like wardrobes. So the whole concept of just doing it because of it being era regardless of if it is good or not goes out the window. The idea is to be era, but it has already been shown that things can change for the better and this is absolutely a question that should be discussed because just because it is more era accurate doesn't mean it is better. This is doubly so because things aren't era accurate in terms of everything else and all parts of the game affects other parts. The population numbers back then were a lot bigger, it was easier to find D2, teleports etc. We actually had ToAU (we are aiming for ToAU era afaik anyway) which allowed for warp scrolls to be bought via IS as well. There were more crafters which lowered prices with competition and so on and so forth. The situation isn't the same here, it just isn't which is why different solutions should be considered. Sometimes era might still be the best option and sometimes it won't be, but it is always worth discussing regardless imo.
When there is a consideration for a QoL change on a private server you have to think about a few things. Wardrobes are in because if not, everyone would just make a hundred mules to store everything. This is due to there being no paywall to extra accounts like in retail. Because of this I'm actually all for higher storage (and i mean like 9999) in mog safes just because with any lower value it just gets circumvented anyway and it would be more immersive game experience to me as a player to go to my own moghouse and grab my items rather than logging in another character to trade myself the stored items.

Another QoL type of change would be due to population. A prime example is level sync. If we had 4,000 active players we would not need level sync anymore.

I don't think a 7 CP warp scroll fits into categories like this. It's been mentioned in this thread before that we do have the crafters to fill this market and you'll be damned sure they will. It also adds more value, which has also been mentioned, to black mages, which are being outclassed by melees at the moment (in EXP parties) so I think it's a positive change in that respect. It's also a positive change that CP will have more value to it in general now for people selling CP purchases on the AH which was also mentioned. One thing I think is beneficial that has not been mentioned as well is that it adds not only another farm spot in a piece of content that was added recently (I say this because promies were not on Kupo until its last few months). Also if the drop rates are proportional to the levels of the mobs (I'm not sure if this is era or not or if it's actually going to happen), we could see the addition of a rare type of farming: farming as a group. I'd welcome that.

Anyway, your ToAU argument with being able to buy with IS is going to be true soon anyway. And I'm absolutely positive we have the Alch and WW crafters to allow some competition. You can see this with people /yell'ing for teleports and having them fulfilled, especially with a (Reward:) posted. By the way, if what you said was true about crafters being too few for the server, then we'd be needing to (Lower the price?) on a ton of equipment and consumables sold by NPCs. That's very similar to the argument you're presenting. I just don't think that's the case.

Is this change going to be more limiting on lower level players more than higher level players? Absolutely. But that's true with almost everything in this game that is tied to the economy. That's just the way it is, and it's good game design to have that feeling of progression.
A bird's trust is not in the branch.
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Kurma
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:03 pm

Re: Scroll of Instant Warp

Post by Kurma » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 am

I am just putting my 2 cents in...

But first, I want to say how happy I am on this server...I got Rank 3 Last night and woohoo!

There are a lot of inaccurate "Era" things on this server, but that doesn't necessarily make it bad.

Examples:

Such as mobs in dungeons re-popping on a 5 minute timer instead of a 16 minute timer (at least in Ghelsba and Yughott Grotto)

Level Sync is the other obvious one to me...but if Level Sync went away, I would probably leave. I have been recruiting friends to play and they will obviously be further behind than me.

I still think this is the FFXI I am looking for. I played on Nasomi a bit and I ran into a bunch of stuff I didn't like...and I will leave it at that.

I do agree that more expensive Warp Scrolls would make it more "Era" accurate, but I do like the convenience of cheaper Warp Scrolls.

It is not a deal breaker either way for me as a new player. I 100% agree about how warp scrolls can proxy nerf BLMs.

Anyway, maybe a compromise could be made? Maybe not 7 or 15 Conquest points, but 750 seems high as well? Maybe there is a middle ground to be found?

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Caelic
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Re: Scroll of Instant Warp

Post by Caelic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:55 am

Kurma wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 am
I do agree that more expensive Warp Scrolls would make it more "Era" accurate, but I do like the convenience of cheaper Warp Scrolls.
I can't get behind the "it's more convenient" argument unless it involves a reason related to the limitations of us playing on a private server. Otherwise the same logic, if accepted, leads you down what would be a sound argument for homepoint teleports, trusts and fields of valor being enabled.
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Kurma
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Re: Scroll of Instant Warp

Post by Kurma » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:04 am

Caelic wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:55 am
Kurma wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 am
I do agree that more expensive Warp Scrolls would make it more "Era" accurate, but I do like the convenience of cheaper Warp Scrolls.
I can't get behind the "it's more convenient" argument unless it involves a reason related to the limitations of us playing on a private server. Otherwise the same logic, if accepted, leads you down what would be a sound argument for homepoint teleports, trusts and fields of valor being enabled.
I can't give an honest answer other than convenience.

And you are correct, if someone wants retail...retail is still available.

There is a reason I came to this server and I feel like the "magic of FFXI" is back.

The world does feel big again, and it feels dangerous again. Its not easy mode for sure, and that is a good thing.

BengtJonssonJr
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:51 pm

Re: Scroll of Instant Warp

Post by BengtJonssonJr » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:53 am

Kurma wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:04 am
Caelic wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:55 am
Kurma wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 am
I do agree that more expensive Warp Scrolls would make it more "Era" accurate, but I do like the convenience of cheaper Warp Scrolls.
I can't get behind the "it's more convenient" argument unless it involves a reason related to the limitations of us playing on a private server. Otherwise the same logic, if accepted, leads you down what would be a sound argument for homepoint teleports, trusts and fields of valor being enabled.
I can't give an honest answer other than convenience.

And you are correct, if someone wants retail...retail is still available.

There is a reason I came to this server and I feel like the "magic of FFXI" is back.

The world does feel big again, and it feels dangerous again. Its not easy mode for sure, and that is a good thing.
I don't really think anyone asked for what retail is. People can spin it however they want, but there already exist convenience changes. Not to mention the magic you are talking about is already there, it won't change just because warp costs stay as is or go up less than to 750 per scroll.

That said I think I would be okay with it costing more, even 750, if there were some good options for warping below warp cudgel at 36. After 36 when there are cudgels, you've gotten some time to accrue some points and D2 is a thing with BLMs I think the cost is okay.

Bikini
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Scroll of Instant Warp

Post by Bikini » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:56 pm

Kurma wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 am
Such as mobs in dungeons re-popping on a 5 minute timer instead of a 16 minute timer (at least in Ghelsba and Yughott Grotto)
If you find any inaccuracies, you should report them at https://github.com/EdenServer/community/issues
However, I'm not sure 100% of the dungeon zones had long respawn times. It seems as though most of them did but the lower level dungeons may have had short respawn times, possibly to compensate for higher population at low levels. And honestly, it's not just a "outdoor zone timer" vs. "indoor zone timer" thing either, as you can look through the wiki and find mobs within the same zone with different respawn timers.

For clarity, here's an in-era page for an NM in Palborough Mines. https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Zi ... did=331520 It says the PH is 8 minutes. So those low level dungeon timers might have been 8 minutes instead of the usual 5-6, or even 16. I remember when the game was brand new in NA I tried to get some dungeon crawling like we did in Everquest going on, and we'd get repops on us trying to move around the dungeon so I don't think they could've been as long as 16.

Sorry for off-topic. :)

Jimmayus
Posts: 123
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Re: Scroll of Instant Warp

Post by Jimmayus » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:14 pm

@Bikini I already have ptsd from Phomiuna repops and it's only been 2 days ._.

Re: warp scrolls, I think you guys should be happy that they're only reverting warps to their original values. This exact same argument could be applied to outpost warps and yet it apparently won't be. I agree with Caelic's description of qol evaluations, it's why inventory expansions are ok (especially if earned) but every job getting warp for free is not.

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