Gold Dust Out of Era

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Doomtrout
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Re: Gold Dust Out of Era

Post by Doomtrout » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:02 am

ultima wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:52 am
Doomtrout wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:13 pm
poroburu wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:21 am
https://github.com/EdenServer/community/issues/1324

Gold Dust is out of era. Seems like an elephant in the room. Clearly an OOE synth. Clearly against the rules.

I really dislike exceptions to drawing a line in the sand at WotG. This should not be one of them. Yet many characters have used this. Thus many characters should have their gains removed.

I realize the difficulty in determining the value of the gains. Also grandfathered Kupo characters. But the rule is explicit about the punishment.
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Godmode
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Re: Gold Dust Out of Era

Post by Godmode » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:39 am

This post was created before the forum rules were introduced. I want to iterate that things need to stay civil. No name calling, no personal attacks.

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gweivyth
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Re: Gold Dust Out of Era

Post by gweivyth » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:51 pm

AvelainFFXI wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:27 am
Forgive me if I'm missing the synth you are referring to - The NQ rings cap at 40 I believe? Gold dust caps at 47. The only ring which could work is the mythril ring which are about ~16k/synth and the last one sold on the AH in 2017. Without gold dust the only realistic option is the silver bangles. Compare this to gold dust which is virtually break even.
Its been a little while since I leveled Goldsmithing but I didn't know about Gold Dust and I don't remember this bridge being too bad, I do remember doing NQ stat rings and mythril ingots/sheets tho. I might have had a bunch of backed up mythril from camping Ullikummi though, like I said it's been a while lol.

I guess that is why I am against just blanket deleveling people. Not everyone used this synth so some people will get hit unfairly, and the logs might not go back far enough to see who did and didn't use it. (I think I leveled past this range on Kupo.)
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Empire
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Re: Gold Dust Out of Era

Post by Empire » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:09 pm

gweivyth wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:51 pm
AvelainFFXI wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:27 am
Forgive me if I'm missing the synth you are referring to - The NQ rings cap at 40 I believe? Gold dust caps at 47. The only ring which could work is the mythril ring which are about ~16k/synth and the last one sold on the AH in 2017. Without gold dust the only realistic option is the silver bangles. Compare this to gold dust which is virtually break even.
Its been a little while since I leveled Goldsmithing but I didn't know about Gold Dust and I don't remember this bridge being too bad, I do remember doing NQ stat rings and mythril ingots/sheets tho. I might have had a bunch of backed up mythril from camping Ullikummi though, like I said it's been a while lol.

I guess that is why I am against just blanket deleveling people. Not everyone used this synth so some people will get hit unfairly, and the logs might not go back far enough to see who did and didn't use it. (I think I leveled past this range on Kupo.)
The bigger question in my opinion is do you believe this recipe should have been removed after others had the chance to use it for a while?

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gweivyth
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Re: Gold Dust Out of Era

Post by gweivyth » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:15 pm

Empire wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:09 pm
gweivyth wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:51 pm
AvelainFFXI wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:27 am
Forgive me if I'm missing the synth you are referring to - The NQ rings cap at 40 I believe? Gold dust caps at 47. The only ring which could work is the mythril ring which are about ~16k/synth and the last one sold on the AH in 2017. Without gold dust the only realistic option is the silver bangles. Compare this to gold dust which is virtually break even.
Its been a little while since I leveled Goldsmithing but I didn't know about Gold Dust and I don't remember this bridge being too bad, I do remember doing NQ stat rings and mythril ingots/sheets tho. I might have had a bunch of backed up mythril from camping Ullikummi though, like I said it's been a while lol.

I guess that is why I am against just blanket deleveling people. Not everyone used this synth so some people will get hit unfairly, and the logs might not go back far enough to see who did and didn't use it. (I think I leveled past this range on Kupo.)
The bigger question in my opinion is do you believe this recipe should have been removed after others had the chance to use it for a while?
Yeah definitely. It isn't gamebreaking enough to go back and try and reverse everyone's levels, but it should be removed now that it is a known entity. Not having a dog in the fight personally, I am OK with that outcome.
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AvelainFFXI
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Re: Gold Dust Out of Era

Post by AvelainFFXI » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:00 pm

If this was an OOE synth that ruined other markets or impacted the battle system (crab sushi, marinara pizza, etc.) I would say remove it. But it is a harmless bridge synth that every goldsmither has had access to since the beginning of Eden (and earlier). It is nothing but a time and gil saver for aspiring crafters who are already suffering the effects of the recent desynth changes.

Gweivyth wrote: It isn't gamebreaking enough to go back and try and reverse everyone's levels,
Caelic wrote:Every single goldsmith on the server has used this.
Empire wrote:The synth should probably just be left alone until you figure out what to do. Truth be told this isn't gamebreaking...
Gweivyth wrote:This doesn't seem like a big enough deal to spend the time and effort to revert people's levels and stuff...
Dexx wrote:At this point in time, just make it part of the game.

I mean we are not gonna take levels away from EVERYONE who has levelled a craft.

But taking the synth away for future crafters, and hadicapping EVERYONE ELSE is equally absurd.
If this synth is minor enough to not warrant reverting levels, which seems to be the general consensus, then by the same line of reasoning it is minor enough to remain in the game so that all new crafters may receive the same time and cost savings as those before them. Removing the synth hurts new crafters. Keeping it in the game harms no one.

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gweivyth
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Re: Gold Dust Out of Era

Post by gweivyth » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:27 pm

I don't agree. Lots of people have benefited from innocuous things in the past that have been removed, (Lots of silly OoE equipment, like the +2 Accuracy mantle) and while they were also pretty harmless, they still needed to go. Leaving "just this one or that one" is a slippery slope and the precedent has already been set that development doesn't really want to do that.

I just also don't think we should retroactively punish people for innocuous stuff either, that's all.
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AvelainFFXI
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Re: Gold Dust Out of Era

Post by AvelainFFXI » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:18 pm

Gweivyth wrote:I don't agree. Lots of people have benefited from innocuous things in the past that have been removed, (Lots of silly OoE equipment, like the +2 Accuracy mantle) and while they were also pretty harmless, they still needed to go.
I can definitely respect that opinion. I want a retail-era game as much as anyone else. But when it comes to the gold dust synth that ship has long sailed.

The argument for its removal, if I'm understanding things correctly, is to be era accurate. But the fact is that it is likely that the vast majority of goldsmithers used this synth to level and are running around on Eden right now. That means that as a server we can never make this part of the goldsmithing leveling grind era accurate without going and reverting everyone's levels. Anything less would just be feigning era accuracy. But no one (except the OP) wants to do that.

Only going "half way" by removing the synth and not reverting levels does nothing but hurt new crafters, and leaves us in this weird situation where we are still not era accurate due to the sheer number of individuals who already benefited who are currently playing today.

I'm totally fine with not reverting levels and not retroactively punishing people for using the gold dust synth. But if we're not, the synth should remain in the game as to not punish new players by forcing them through a portion of the leveling grind that players before them did not have to partake in.

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gweivyth
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Re: Gold Dust Out of Era

Post by gweivyth » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:49 pm

Right, I understand your point, I just don't agree with it. With something as harmless as this, I don't think its fair to punish people by removing levels, especially when there is no reasonable way to verify who did and did not benefit from it. Your claim is that everyone who came before now benefited from it, but you can't be 100% certain of that. Like I said, I didn't know about this synth and that could have been the case for others as well. It may not have even been a thing on Kupo, but you'd punish people who leveled their Goldsmithing back then while also trying to punish the new bloods.

With something this small, just patch up the hole and let the water that got into the boat dry itself.
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Kreios
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Re: Gold Dust Out of Era

Post by Kreios » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:12 pm

poroburu wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:44 am
200 Silver Bangles. Or maybe lose 6 flat GS levels to account for the stretch from Mythril Ingot to Gold Dust.

I'm serious too. It's punitive. This should have been addressed far sooner.
Just went from 39-45, took 160k (28 Silver Bangles and some lances) and im pretty sure ill get my gil back. Sorta sucks i missed out on the gold dust, but really wasn't bad. Would be cool if the recipe stayed a while, but think that goes into the line in the sand about era being ToAU. Thanks -Ainz
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