BST support job charm duration change discussion

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poroburu
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BST support job charm duration change discussion

Post by poroburu » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:06 am

"■ The duration of the Beastmaster Charm ability will now factor in a player's Beastmaster main level when used as a subjob."

This sentence is not clear so let's go by the wiki...
When Beastmaster is set as a support job; Charm is affected by the main level of your Beastmaster job.

For example, if your Beastmaster job is level 40 and is set as a sub for a level 75 job, a monster that checks as Easy Prey will probably be very difficult to Charm. However, if your Beastmaster job is level 75, and if you set it as a support job to another level 75 job, an Easy Prey may be Charmed with ease.
I cannot think of any other support job that cares about the full (main) level of the job is. Every support only job is leveled to 37. Why should /BST be any different? Why do I need to spend another 50 hours (500k exp) just to maintain my current playstyle?

This was a case of bad design. The server philosophy allows identifying bad design and balancing accordingly.

I suppose a counter argument for this was so that a high level character could not charm anything EP+ as 75JOB/BST1. The success should be proportional of the levels towards capping BST as a support job. So you could still penalize an underleveled sub job BST on their charm level check with this formula:

effectiveCharmLevel = mainJobLevel * subJobLevel / subJobCap

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Starbucks
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Re: BST support job charm duration change discussion

Post by Starbucks » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:09 am

I mean, Puppetmaster is very much the same way. Depending on how much you have invested, you at least need PUP lvl 50 with the quests done for all the heads/frames, in addition to attachments.

In this way, extra XP might be easier than gearing out the puppets. Either way the principle is the same: Time invested into the main job pays off when you sub it. It's kind of cool? idk.

icarium
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Re: BST support job charm duration change discussion

Post by icarium » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:21 pm

This is your reward for leveling bst. It's a useless sub otherwise. Note you only get charm, not call breast. Let's not make custom changes yea? It's always been like this in retail, it should stay like this here.

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poroburu
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Re: BST support job charm duration change discussion

Post by poroburu » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:42 pm

Those PUP quests don't change the mechanics of the job, just access to equipment. Also PUP is one of the worst sub jobs in the game.
icarium wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:21 pm
This is your reward for leveling bst. It's a useless sub otherwise. Note you only get charm, not call breast. Let's not make custom changes yea? It's always been like this in retail, it should stay like this here.
My reward for leveling BST to 37 is to use it as a subjob, like any other subjob. No other subjob requires spending 50 additional hours of grinding experience to use.

BST sub can't call beast or use leave until 70+ which are significant downsides. I was a 75 BST on retail so I know the job well.

I made an argument for why there should be a change from retail. The custom change precedent has already been broken and is permitted in the server mission statement.

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gweivyth
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Re: BST support job charm duration change discussion

Post by gweivyth » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:46 pm

I like it the way it is supposed to be. Otherwise you just end up with a bunch of people spamming pet parties. I'd rather pass on that.
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poroburu
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Re: BST support job charm duration change discussion

Post by poroburu » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm

gweivyth wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:46 pm
I like it the way it is supposed to be. Otherwise you just end up with a bunch of people spamming pet parties. I'd rather pass on that.
I'm not understanding your point. People do already spam pet parties.

You like that you need to be a 75 BST to use it at level 37 as a sub job?

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gweivyth
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Re: BST support job charm duration change discussion

Post by gweivyth » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:05 pm

poroburu wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm
gweivyth wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:46 pm
I like it the way it is supposed to be. Otherwise you just end up with a bunch of people spamming pet parties. I'd rather pass on that.
I'm not understanding your point. People do already spam pet parties.

You like that you need to be a 75 BST to use it at level 37 as a sub job?
Yes. I don't have a problem with /BST requiring a high Beastmaster main level because Beastmaster is a job that's basically worthless for everything else in the game. This seems like a fair reward for leveling it to a high level, since there's really not much else to gain by doing so. Like what do you do with your 75 BST? Farm Amemet easily? Not much of a reward there. :(
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Ashton
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Re: BST support job charm duration change discussion

Post by Ashton » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:51 pm

gweivyth wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:05 pm
poroburu wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm
gweivyth wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:46 pm
I like it the way it is supposed to be. Otherwise you just end up with a bunch of people spamming pet parties. I'd rather pass on that.
I'm not understanding your point. People do already spam pet parties.

You like that you need to be a 75 BST to use it at level 37 as a sub job?
Yes. I don't have a problem with /BST requiring a high Beastmaster main level because Beastmaster is a job that's basically worthless for everything else in the game. This seems like a fair reward for leveling it to a high level, since there's really not much else to gain by doing so. Like what do you do with your 75 BST? Farm Amemet easily? Not much of a reward there. :(
You can farm a lot of harder NMs than that as BST75, especially with duo. Just because it cannot participate in end game the way most other jobs can doesn't mean it's "basically worthless". The ability to kill a mob and take almost no damage yourself should never be discounted. But you know this already since you have had BST75. I'm just reminding you, I suppose.

In any case it should be set as retail was in era. If it's a bug just fix it.
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sootle
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Re: BST support job charm duration change discussion

Post by sootle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:05 pm

50 hours to go from 37-75bst LOL. It took me like 6+ months of soloing to do that among other things but dang.

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gweivyth
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Re: BST support job charm duration change discussion

Post by gweivyth » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:35 pm

Ashton wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:51 pm
gweivyth wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:05 pm
poroburu wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm

I'm not understanding your point. People do already spam pet parties.

You like that you need to be a 75 BST to use it at level 37 as a sub job?
Yes. I don't have a problem with /BST requiring a high Beastmaster main level because Beastmaster is a job that's basically worthless for everything else in the game. This seems like a fair reward for leveling it to a high level, since there's really not much else to gain by doing so. Like what do you do with your 75 BST? Farm Amemet easily? Not much of a reward there. :(
You can farm a lot of harder NMs than that as BST75, especially with duo. Just because it cannot participate in end game the way most other jobs can doesn't mean it's "basically worthless". The ability to kill a mob and take almost no damage yourself should never be discounted. But you know this already since you have had BST75. I'm just reminding you, I suppose.

In any case it should be set as retail was in era. If it's a bug just fix it.
I dunno, I've yet to encounter a fight where I was like "Man, I wish I was BST instead of dual boxing THF and WHM." :(
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