SAM vs other DD jobs

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Sleazy
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:00 am

SAM vs other DD jobs

Post by Sleazy » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:19 am

I have a well geared 75 SAM and the damage compared to other melee DD jobs seems really weak, I can barely break 1K with any WS, a solo THF can do upwards of 3K with shark bite, other jobs like WAR with rampage and DRG with penta can do well over 1K, even a geared WHM using hexa strike can easily break 1K, am I missing something here?

Rivver
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:38 am

Re: SAM vs other DD jobs

Post by Rivver » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:40 am

That is was THF specializes in, SAM doesn't. The concept behind SAM was that it would provide a lot of DD while facilitating other players to SC and MB. SAM never had the best solo spike numbers.

Mozzy
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:10 pm

Re: SAM vs other DD jobs

Post by Mozzy » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:10 am

Knowing what mobs you're fighting matters a good bit. Sounds like "solo thf" you're talking about that THF farming something low level, meaning higher damage but you're talking a party setup with WAR and DRG when talking about them.

Keys
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 9:38 pm

Re: SAM vs other DD jobs

Post by Keys » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:54 pm

Even fighting a low level mob a thf shouldn’t be doing anything near 3k ws’s. If they are, that isn’t anywhere close to era accurate. No job back then could reach 3k ws’s. I think I’ve seen a ranger barely reach 2k, but that was before their nerf.

Mozzy
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:10 pm

Re: SAM vs other DD jobs

Post by Mozzy » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:46 pm

Keys wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:54 pm
Even fighting a low level mob a thf shouldn’t be doing anything near 3k ws’s. If they are, that isn’t anywhere close to era accurate. No job back then could reach 3k ws’s. I think I’ve seen a ranger barely reach 2k, but that was before their nerf.
Yea, 3k sounds like a pretty big overestimation tbh. I'd have to see a picture of the damage (and what they're fighting of course) to believe it.

Falaras
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:06 pm

Re: SAM vs other DD jobs

Post by Falaras » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:21 pm

I mean 1k average Gekko doesn't sound that far off from era. I remember Gekko being pretty consistently 1-1.1k average on merit mobs on retail and that was with very good WS gear. Penta and Rampage have much larger variation since they hit 5 times, so they will spike high but average lower.

Raphtalia
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:29 am

Re: SAM vs other DD jobs

Post by Raphtalia » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:27 am

The defense calculations on mobs seem off in general, weapons skills with crit mods and attack mods (like shark bite) perform around what I would expect in this era on retail, everything else seems to perform less well.

I haven’t seen any 3k shark bites yet, but thfs can get some pretty huge numbers on gods (who generally have the highest evasion and defense outside of cases like aspid) I’ve seen 1.5k shark bites while other well geared players are barely managing 300 on gods

Aneyus
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:50 am

Re: SAM vs other DD jobs

Post by Aneyus » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:18 pm

At some point after the level 75 era ended on retail FFXI, a lot of weaponskills apparently had their pDIF buffed to make them more competitive. Shark bite was one of those weaponskills -- and you can see this if you look on the wiki at the current page vs the older pages for the weaponskill.

Current:
Damage Multipliers by TP:
1000 TP 2000 TP 3000 TP
4.50 6.80 8.50
Old:
Damage Multipliers by TP:
100%TP 200%TP 300%TP
2.00 2.50 3.00

It's just another one in a long list of things that our dev team must manually roll back to the way it was in this era. So if we're looking to truly replicate an era experience these values should probably be audited and bug reported if they seem off. Shark bite is the first skill that jumps to my memory as being vastly different, but I'd be willing to bet that there are more that slipped through the cracks as well.

Falaras
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:06 pm

Re: SAM vs other DD jobs

Post by Falaras » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:25 pm

Aneyus wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:18 pm
At some point after the level 75 era ended on retail FFXI, a lot of weaponskills apparently had their pDIF buffed to make them more competitive. Shark bite was one of those weaponskills -- and you can see this if you look on the wiki at the current page vs the older pages for the weaponskill.

Current:
Damage Multipliers by TP:
1000 TP 2000 TP 3000 TP
4.50 6.80 8.50
Old:
Damage Multipliers by TP:
100%TP 200%TP 300%TP
2.00 2.50 3.00

It's just another one in a long list of things that our dev team must manually roll back to the way it was in this era. So if we're looking to truly replicate an era experience these values should probably be audited and bug reported if they seem off. Shark bite is the first skill that jumps to my memory as being vastly different, but I'd be willing to bet that there are more that slipped through the cracks as well.
I asked Knowone on discord about if the 2012+ WS changes where active here and he checked, they aren't. I mean to be honest Shark Bite always hit very hard when fully stacked. The balancing point is the fact it can't be spammed like that. Obviously there are issues here with things like defense of certian mobs though.

Ronin
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:24 am

Re: SAM vs other DD jobs

Post by Ronin » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:44 pm

I dont think shark bite is off at all. I always thf for dynamis and with sole sushi and usually no other offensive buffs I hit for 800-1700 on SA shark bite but still cant keep up with drks and Sams because they can spam while I have to wait a min to be able to max my dmg.
But shark bite is heavily dependant on Dex when I miss time equip changes because of lag I can tell when it lands with ws gear vs tp gear. I remember on retail my Sam wasnt well geared and I'd hit for about 300-500 gekko/kasha on . When mobs turn and I miss SA but have ws gear equipped I hit for about that on dynamis mobs and my ws is pretty much maxed dex/str. Here i can hit average gekkos for about 800 on dynamis mobs with ws gear.

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